What do I mean? You said,”We’re sinners (all of us), the Lord Jesus never sinned, but He loves us so much He died to pay for our sins. He rose the third day proving He’s God (not just Lucifer’s brother…sorry Mormons…Jesus rose from the grave proving He is God, the creator…not the created brother of Lucifer whom Jesus created as a beautiful angel of light), and if we will receive Him and believe He died to pay for our sins, we have the power to become sons of God and live forever with Him in heaven instead of paying for our own sins in Hell for all of eternity. John 1:12, John 3:16, John 1:1,14 and I Corinthians 15:3-4.

Let me share with you what I said to another ignorant anti-mormon named Shelby. Here was our conversation. After reading please share with us all how Mormons do not believe we are all sinners, Jesus never sinned, Jesus loves us, paid for our sins, rose the third day proving he’s God, how Jesus paid for our sins, have the power to become sons of God and live forever. It is your ignorant and arrogant spewage that gives Christians a bad name. You will rationalize Mr. Huckabee going on the most dispicable comedy program and go as far as to say he was spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. What, by just showing up he is now preaching the Gospel. He never said anything of the type and allowed those people to use him a make him look like a joke. You really exposed yourself when you made that comment.

Here is our conversation and please answer my specific questions I just asked you. Shelbey was saying things to others as well, so I would suggest you go to the “Huckabee’s New Texas Ad” story blog if you want to see all the post.
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Shelbey:

Romney’s sheeple are so distraught because they feel like their religion would be validated and considered more legitimate and mainstream if only one of their own were President . . . Pathetic!
Even if Romney (or another Mormon) were elected President, the LDS church is still an heretical, unbiblical cult. Favorable election results for Romney would not change that, though, as you desire, they might change naive people’s perception. The merits of your false teachings will continue to fall on their own - no help for your wanna-be savior, Romney.
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American Conservative:

Shelby the Bigot:
Where do I start. You think that you are learned in everyones religion because of your proclaimed doctorate in Biblical theology. Get a life. I am supposed to say woooo, she knows what she is talking about. When you make comments like these

” Romney’s sheeple are so distraught because they feel like their religion would be validated and considered more legitimate and mainstream if only one of their own were President . . . Pathetic!
Even if Romney (or another Mormon) were elected President, the LDS church is still an heretical, unbiblical cult. Favorable election results for Romney would not change that, though, as you desire, they might change naive people’s perception. The merits of your false teachings will continue to fall on their own - no help for your wanna-be savior, Romney

You also write, “Unbiased examination of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints using biblical standards will result in ample evidence that eliminates the notion that it is a heretical cult.” That is absolutely untrue! I have a doctorate in biblical theology, and the teachings of Mormonism and its so-called Scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrines & Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price) blatantly contradict (in innumerable instances) the teachings of the Bible. One of the most heinously heretical teachings is your belief that people can become gods (of their own planets) in the afterlife. Such a notion not only contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture (e.g., Isaiah 43:10 which states, “Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.”), it is also blatantly blasphemous. ”

Obviously, you are free to believe anything you wish, but to say that the teachings of Mormonism are consistent with the Bible is to ignore the thousands of contradictions between the two.
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You disgust me, seriously. Since you feel you are so brilliant, why don’t you explain to all of us why there are so many different Christian churches on the earth, when there was only one Church when Christ was on the earth whose foundation was apostles and prophets. Now in todays world there are hundreds of Churches. Do you spend your time picking out the ones that you feel are cults or heretical based upon your interpertation of the Bible. Why don’t you share with us all the different scripture references in the Bible where ” Bible” is Mentioned. Uh oh, it does not, so therefore the Bible is untrue. Why don’t you share with us where it says in the bible that years after the death of Christ and his apostles, that MEN not Prophets and Apostles would translate compile certain letters and epistles written by prophets and apostles and compile them into one book called the Bible. It doe not say that anywhere, so therefore the Bible must not be true according to your standard if it does not say it in the Bible.
The Bible means ” collection of Books” and was not written in chronological order. We believe it to be the word of God. We use the King James version for those who do not know. So according to Shelby if a belief is not spelled out word for word in the bible and there is no room for interpertation, it must be heretical and a cult like belief. Yet I just pointed out FACTS about the Bible that are not found in the Bible, but according to Shelbys standard, it must mean the Bible is not true as well and anyone who believes those facts are part of a cult.
Shelby since you are such an expert on our faith, why don’t you share with everyone our 13 Articles of Faith so everyone can judge for themselves how cult-like of a people we are. You are a hypocrite. Christ never went around undermining other peoples faith. He was perfect in all ways and is the Saviour of mankind because of his sacrifice for our sins and his triumph over death through his resurrection. Boy that sure sounds heretical and cult like doesn’t it
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American Conservative:

Shelby: let me ask you another question. Does God have a body?
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American Conservative:

A body of flesh and bones?
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Shelbey:

To American Conservative:

No, God the Father does NOT have a body of flesh and bones (as Mormons teach).

Jesus made this perfectly clear when He said, “God is spirit.” (John 4:24)

A Christian church (in response to your rantings) is one that believes that Jesus is the Savior (i.e., that salvation comes through faith in Him and His substitutionary sacrifice ALONE). Salvation - biblically speaking - is not the result of belonging to a particular organization or achieved through earned exaltations.

You accuse me of bigotry because I distinguish between biblical Christian faith and a counterfeit cult. But isn’t it YOUR church that says, “We are THE ONE TRUE CHURCH”? When you ‘bear your testimony’ don’t you say, “I believe the Mormon Church is the one true church and that Joseph Smith is God’s prophet”?

I’m very familiar with the teachings of Mormonism because my wife was one (served a mission, temple worthy, dad a stake president - the whole nine yards) before she accepted Jesus Christ (as revealed in the Bible) as her Savior. Now she is “saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
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Shelbey:

I pray, one day, you will be, as well.

The only hope of that happening is for you to first become aware of the fact that the religion upon which you are staking your eternal destiny is false - a man-made religious system that is nothing more than a cheap imitation of the real thing born in the imagination of a treasure-hunting con-man named Joseph Smith. Trust Jesus (not Joseph) for salvation; He (JESUS) is a much safer bet!
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Shelbey:

The ‘medicine’ I’m ‘feeding’ you may not taste good (as it contradicts your current belief system/worldview), but if you receive it (as it’s ‘prescribed’ in the Scriptures), you will be eternally ‘well’ - forever in a right relationship with God, your Maker
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Shelbey:

To American Conservative:

You asked me numerous questions about what the Bible teaches (in contrast to Mormonism).
I took the time to address/answer each of those questions…
but all I’m hearing from your direction now is the chirping of crickets!

Jesus got the same response from the pseudo-religious people of His day (the Pharisees):

~ “No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask Him any more questions.”
(Matthew 22:46)

At least ‘Happy People in Missouri’ is gracious enough to engage in dialogue and not ask a bunch of questions and then disappear
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(Side note: I was responding to this bigot as he was making this comments.)

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American Conservative:

Interesting post Shelby. Wow, I did not know that I was not saved according to you. Yet I just proclaimed that I believe that Jesus Christ is my Saviour and that I believe in his sacrifice for our sins and his triumph over death through his resurrection. According to you if I just believe in Christ, as I said I do, than his grace will save me through his atonement. You then tell me that I am not saved and that you hope that I will be saved like your wife. Sounds confusing or should I say hypocritical that your wife is saved, but I am not eventhough I fit your definition of salvation.

Let me share with you my definition of Salavation according to my interpretation of the Bible. I to agree that we are only saved through the grace of Jesus Christ. However, I also believe James when he tells us (James 2:26) that ” For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” Now you may warp what he teaches to fit your convienant definition of salvation, but I will believe exactl what James teaches. James goes further to make the point clear by saying (James 2:17) “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” He then furthers the point by saying ( James 1:22) “But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.” I also believe Christ told us that we need to love God and we show that love by loving our neighbor. Obviously the two great commandements. Jesus also went futher by saying in (John 14:15) ” If ye love me, keep my commandments”. The last time I checked not stealing, committing adultery, bearing false witness, are works of actions and are just a few of commandments of the Lord. So I believe in the Bible where it tells us that we are to Love God in order to receive salvation and Christ said we show are love not by just confessing with our mouths, but by keeping his commandments as well.
Was it not Christ you told us ( Matthew 18:3) ” And said, verily I say unto you, Except ye become converted, and become as a little children, ye SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINDOM OF HEAVEN. I believe Christ made it very clear that we are to be meek, humble, submissive, teachable, trusting, and teachable as these are all atributes of Christ. If we live by those attributes we are following after Christ and are doing our best to follow his commandments. He made it very clear that in order to be saved we need to be doing our best to live with him again. He also made it clear that salvation is conditional upon keeping his commandments, or in other words faith AND WORKs. According to your earlier post you and your wife are saved. Which means you are perfectly meek, humble, submissive, and teachable. Your comments in your earlier post slandering Mormons sure prove that. And since you believe your salvation is already made sure, you can now take on the role as the judge of mankind, since you already told Christ that you are already saved and his judgment is no longer necessary.
As for me I claim to be in imperfect man. I will try to do my best to follow his commandments and repent daily of my wrong doings, but I will still fall short of perfection. We know that no unclean thing can dwell with God and so therefore I will pray for the Grace of Jesus Christ as he is the only one who can grant it, that he will have mercy on my soul, and find me fit to live in his presence. His grace fills the void between imperfection and perfection. He made it very clear that we need to become like him through our thoughts,words, actions, and desires, thus becoming like a child or childlike. His Grace is only sufficient for those who keep his commandment to the best of their ability. Yet knowing we will all fall short of perfection. Your shared your opinion based upon YOUR interpretation of the scriptures and this is MY interpretation of salvation based upon the scriptures.

In regards to the nature of God. You said that God the Father does not have a body and that God is a spirit. Yet you also said that Jesus Christ is God, just in the flesh. I find that interesting that you believe that God the Father does not have a body, but Christ and he are the same person. Let me show you my interpretation of the nature of God based upon the scriptures. Please turn to Luke 24:36-43.
This is when Christ appeared to his apostles AFTER his resurrection/ 36. And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, peace be unto you. 37. But they were terrified and afrighted,and supposed that they had seen a SPIRIRT. 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I MYSELF: handle me, and see; FOR A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES, AS YE SEE ME HAVE. 40. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42. And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of honey comb. 43. AND HE TOOK IT, AND DID EAT BEFORE THEM.

In in the scriptures Christ said as plain as day that a spirit does not have flesh and bones as ye see me have. He even ate with them to prove he was not just a Spirit. So it is clear Christ does have a body of flesh and bone. So are you saying that that he shed his body again before he assended back to Heaven? You stated that Christ is God in the flesh, which however you want to put it, he is still God. So if he is God and he just stated that he has a body of flesh and bone, than GOD DOES HAVE A BODY. He also has a spirit. Which was the whole purpose of the resurrection, that Christ broke the bands of death through his resurection so that we all might live again. That our bodies and spirits, like Christ, would be reunited together again at the resurrection in perfect form, as was Christ. So GOD DOES HAVE A BODY AS HE TOLD THE APOSTLES AND DOES HAVE A SPIRIT.

Christ also told us that he was not God the Father. He stated ( John 17: And now, O Father, glorify thou me, WITH THINE OWN SELF WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS”. And then with so much humility and love for his Father in Heaven as well as all of us, he said ( John 14:2 ” Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye have loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I”. They are ONE in purpose to bring to pass the imortality and eternal life of mankind.

I love my Father in Heave and am eternally grateful for my Lord and Savior. That through him and him alone can we return back to both of them. I am grateful for the Comforter even the Holy Ghost who reveals this truth and brightens the straight and narrow path with his light. I am glad Shelby that you and I are brothers in Christ and pray that we always remember that.
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American Conservative:

Shelby: polythesism is a belief in several different gods who serve several different purposes. People that have believed this way were the Incans, Aztecs, Mayans, and other groups of people. As ” Happy said We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in his Son Jesus Christ who are ONE in purpose to bring to pass the imortality and Eternal Life of mankind. Please do not make things up about what we believe when you can not even state the facts.
Yes, we believe what Paul taught the Romans. Romans 8:16&17 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD. 17. AND IF CHILDREN, THEN HEIRS: HEIRS OF GOD, AND JOINT-HEIRS WITH CHRIST; IF SO BE THAT WE SUFFER WITH HIM, THAT WE MAY BE ALSO GLORIFIED TOGETHER.”

Christ also said to the Jews after speaking of His Father and as they were about to stone him he said ( John 10:32-39)” 32. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works, do ye stone me? 33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makes thysef God. 34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38. But if I do, though ye believe me not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 39. Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand”

Shelby please reference what I just shared with you to Psalms 82:6. This is the Lord speaking “I have said, Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.”

Are you going to tell me that the Lord himself who said that we are gods and are children of the Most High is blasphemist. He told us of who we are and who we can become, even JOINT-HEIRS WITH CHRIST, as Paul even taught. You would have been one of those who would have stoned Jesus as he claimed he was a God, even the Son of God and to believe that works he does are not of himself but that of His Father in Heaven. This is why the Jews were going to stone him, because they claimed he put himself at the level of Father in Heaven. But he always so humbly tells us that the Father is greater than himself. Therefore, we also say that we are no greater than Christ or Heavenly Father, but can become like them as Christ has stated as has Paul the great apostle.

I am going to stop responding to your comments as you continue to slander my faith and my faith in Jesus Christ and the Gospel he taught. I suggest you worry about your own salvation then condemn others to hell. You are the hypocrites Christ talked about. True believers love God and show that by loving and respecting their fellow men.
I hope everyone on this site and blog has seen what type of bigotry exist amongst this great country we live. And do not trust any of Shelby’s false accusations about what my church believes. If you want to know the truth of any religion who go to official sources of the Church. Our Churches websites are Mormon.org and lds.org.
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American Conservative:

Shelby:
One last thing, I love your triune theory. Yet no where in the bible do any of the apostles and prophets use the word trinity, triune, etc…. This is a MAN MADE theory based upon their interpretation of the Bible which is based off the Nicene Creed. A creed formed by men hundreds and hundreds of years after the death of Christ and his Apostles. Again it was formed by men not God.

This is why prophets and Apostles are so important. They are given authority directly from God as Paul has stated they are the foundation of Christ Church. Without Apostles and prophets to clarify and reveal truth as in days of old, as in days to come, we are left to our own understanding. Thus, why there are thousands of interpretations of the Bible. And if we do not agree with what Mr. Shelby’s interpretation of the scriptures, we are all cultist, heretics,and are condemed to hell.

Again exposing religious and hypocritical bigots for who they really are. Still waiting Shelby for our 13 Articles of Faith. What, you don’t want people to know what we really believe. Grow up son and start sharing the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and stop bearing false witness against your fellow men
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Having said that, I’m not thrilled with the “remaining” choices. Personally, I think there is a good reason that the last several Presidents were also governors. I personally am not looking forward to a President that only has a senatorship on his/her resume.

Anyway, just wanted to throw my $.02 in. God bless all of you.

Seek truth. Don’t be led blindly by words without investigation. Things written by men are opinions of the author. Acts speak louder than words.

http://www.petitiononline.com/jkb1961/petition.html

Whether you support McCain or not there should still be a debate if nothing else for the sake of reconciliation. North Carolina has not even held their primary yet and they are telling us it’s over? We have no voice? TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION IS GROUNDS FOR REVOLT AS I RECALL…

This whole process has been hijacked from the start.

It was posted, “Mormons, for example, speak highly of the Ten Commandments but teach that (in the afterlife) they can become gods. Such a blasphemous notion flies in the face of Commandment #1: “You shall have no other gods before Me (including, one would presume, yourself!)” (Exodus 20:3)”

No OTHER GOD(S) before me. is GOD saying that there are indeed other gods? If GOD is saying that there are other gods, then could the mormons be correct? Note that they did not say if they became gods they would be “before” GOD, just that they believe they can become like God as I can become like my father but I am not before my father. Isn’t that what Jesus said, ” Come Follow Me”. Become like me? Did he mean come follow me, but I will close the door when you get close because you just aren’t good enough to ever become like me?

There are many things that we should all question and seek answers, but if you notice through the gospel, Jesus was always quick to rebuke those that claim righteousness in his name yet were quick to persecute and say others they were not worthy of HIS company.

I did not post this to begin a diatribe against anyone here. I simply think there needs to be some thought put into comments and statements made about any group or religion. Know wherefore of what ye speak.

Perhaps it would be a good time to consider the Golden Rule or maybe the old saying is more apropos “If you don’t have something good to say about someone, then don’t say anything at all”.

Just some thoughts from an old “lurker”.